Hello Ewoud,

Hm, perhaps rather than re-creating the translation, why not only update what is necessary on the existing Dutch translation?

Mark wrote:

Hello Ewoud,

Hm, perhaps rather than re-creating the translation, why not only update what is necessary on the existing Dutch translation?

Hi Mark,

That's indeed what I have started doing. But I still have go through all the files and all the lines one by one. That will take some time but that is fine. My main concern is future updates on all those files.

Is it possible to add a second Dutch translation?

Thanks,
Ewoud

Hm, not too sure what your concern is actually because whenever you update your translations, it gets modified directly on Transifex. Unfortunately it's not possible because each language tags are identified via the locale. For instance, nl-NL . We can't store it as nl-NL2 because when it gets downloaded on your site, it will go into the wrong folder.

My main concern is that if you release for example EasySocial 1.2, it will probably contain a lot of new language strings and maybe even new language files. Then I will need to check all of them with a tool such as WinMerge to see if there are any changes, and then add those changes to my own translation files. That will be very time consuming. When there is a second Dutch Translation in Transifex, it will be so much easier to keep track of any changes and additions.

I am just thinking out load, but isn't it possible to add for example a language called 'Holland (Netherlands)' and there use also the locale nl-NL? See my printscreen as an example. If you can use locale nl-NL only once, also in the situation I explained, is it then possible to still add 'Holland (Netherlands)' but with locale nl-NL2 for example but not add it to the Languages tab in the backend of the components? In that case I can still keep track of any changes and then download the modified language file from Transifex, rename it and upload it through ftp.

Hopefully I have made it a bit more clear what I am trying to achieve

Hello Ewoud,

It's not possible because Transifex is not created by us and as mentioned above, it's not possible because when we process the language folders, it will become /language/nl-NL2/ which is also wrong.

Hi Mark,

Too bad, but I understand what you are saying. I was hoping 2 locales could exist next to each other as long as they both have a different name for the language such as 'Dutch (Netherlands)' and 'Holland (Netherlands'. And then the users can decide which Dutch language files they will install.

Looks like WinMerge is becoming my friend again.

Ps. Can't wait for version 1.2 of EasySocial. It looks really awesome!

Hello Ewoud,

Not a problem at all and Thanks for understanding I believe the Holland (Netherlends) version is actually just nl and not nl-NL.

Hi Mark,

Sorry to come back to you on this again, but I would hit myself if it turned out to be possible what I am trying to achieve. This weekend I contacted the helpdesk at Transifex and they told me the following:
"Yes, it is possible to have a source file with the same source language twice under the same project."

In the attachment you will see the backend of EasySocial, it's the tab Languages. What if there will be a language 'Holland (Netherlands)' and a language 'Dutch (Netherlands)'? If a user is going to install the language 'Holland(Netherlands)' it will install the language files 'Holland (Netherlands) from the folder 'Holland (Netherlands)' from Transifex (see second printscreen). And if a different user wants to install 'Dutch (Netherlands)' it will install the files from the corresponding folder name on Transifex.

The name of the language in the Backend of EasySocial is probably being pulled from Transifex including the contents of that language. So why is it not possible to create a second Dutch Language folder in Transifex and show that in the backend of EasySocial (and EasyBlog and EasyDiscuss)?

Again, sorry for being so persistent, but I want to make 100% sure it is not possible. Maintaining language files in Transifex is so much easier then doing it on my local computer with a tool like Winmerge.

Regards,
Ewoud

I will request Apson to take a look at this but as far as I recall, we cannot create an additional language and I really reckon that we don't. This will just confuse the users even more. I strongly advise that one language to be used and you should update the existing one rather than creating a new one.

Thanks for having Apson take a look. Maybe we can add the difference between the two in the name of the language. If we put the following in the 2 names, the difference will be clear for the Dutch people:

Dutch U/Uw (Netherlands)
Holland je/jij (Netherlands)

or

Dutch U/Uw (Netherlands)
Dutch Je/Jij (Netherlands)

One other possibility might be adding Holland (Netherlands) translation to Transifex, but not to the backend of EasySocial (and EasyBlog and EasyDiscuss). That way I can still use Transifex to keep the language files updated. And then I can add it to my translation packages on my own website http://graphiqs.nl/downloads just like I am doing now with JomSocial and hwdMediaShare.

One or another, it will benefit us both if we can add an extra Dutch translation on Transifex . I know I will make a lot of people happy, so indirect, you to

I will still feel that it's best you update the existing translations rather than creating a new translation. Nevertheless I will pass this to apson and we'll see what findings she has.

Hello Ewoud,

I am sorry for the delay to getting back to you. I have checked in Transifex, looks there is no selection for Holland(Netherlands). I don't think this can be done

Thank you.

Regards,
Apson Chom

Hi Apson,

Thanks a lot for your reply. I have had a lot of contact with the people behind Transifex the last couple of days and their conclusion is was the following:

I don’t know if you have the rights or role to do it but what you want to do is achievable by following this scenario:
• Have the source file twice under the same project.
The first one keeps being handled as it used to be.
The new one will be identical (you can differentiate in it’s name) so inside the Dutch (Nederlands) folder you ’ll have two translation files for the two source files.
There will be one file with the “polite” translations mapped to the existing source file and one with the “social” translations mapped to the new source file.
What you suggest is not possible, you can’t have translation files with the same locale code twice and just rename folders. Every locale code exists just once for the translations of one source file.
If you want to have two kinds of translations for the same locale code the only solution is to have the source file twice mapped to the different translations.

So I am not sure if this is something you want to test and see if this might work for Stackideas and myself.

Regards,
Ewoud

Hello Ewoud,

We have decided to only stick to 1 language instead of having multiple (As we are also unable to create the same dutch language). I would advise that you make the changes on the main Dutch language.

hi ewoud, mark and apson
the problem with the "you" is a common thing also in other languages like german. I understand the pain of getting changes overriden but instead of creating a whole new second language (someone would have to do the whole work again OR if the existing translations are copied over you still would have to change all the you things) you can do one of these solutions:

1) download the current files, do the changes and when a new version is out use a diff tool and merge them
2) same idea but track the file using git - this way you can easily keep track of changes and merging is much faster
3) probably the best and easiest one: use the joomla language override function. you can tell joomla exactly how to override existing language strings. that way you can left the nl files untouched and simply tell joomla the strings you want to override. so no more problems with updates or re-applying changes to your files.

hope that helps

Hi everybody,

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate that.

@Mark, I understand your position and policy on this. But you can't say I haven't tried

@Alex, Thanks for the suggestions. At the moment I have made all necessary changes in the already existing Dutch language, and that are really a lot. Also because I have some more words I like to have translated differently and also I have changed some wrongly translated strings. Number 3 will be therefore also a lot of work. Number 1 merging is something I do not know how to do that. Same goes for number 2, using git. Both probably are not that difficult to learn but at this moment I am a bit short on time (who isn't? )

If you have some tips on 1 and 2, then please let me know because I am always open to good suggestions.

hey ewoud,
for sure I'll share some more

for 1 and 2 it's actually what you're already familiar with using winmerge. so let's take easyblog frontend as example:
you download the original file from transifex and then you go through this and doing your changes. now when the language file gets updated you don't want to lose your changes for sure so you download the updated easyblog frontend file again and use a merge/diff tool like winmerge (in my older windows time I found totalcommander even userfriendly, just a tip).
now in winmerge you have both files next to each other, check both and just transfer the new lines over to your modified file - that way your changes stay intact but you still have a complete translation file.

with git it's nearly the same but git itself is tracking your changes and shows you only the differences since the file was last modified - in short it makes it simply faster and easier to keep up your files and also as it saves the different states you can even revert back to an older version if something went wrong. downside of course is that you would need to "learn" a new technique, even if it's really not that hard at all.

even if number3 (language override) is not the solution you prefer right now let me say that in the long run it's really the easiest way. you simply copy your changes (and only the changes) to the override file and you then don't need to worry about updates at all. so when you want the string from COM_EASYBLOG_WHATEVER to be = "My new even cooler text than the original translation" you simply copy that line to the override file and don't need to touch the original file. joomla will first check if an override exist and then show your string instead of the one in the language file - it's actually the same concept as when you work with template overrides so no need for all the merging work at all...

hope that helps

Hi Alex,

Thanks for your extensive explanation.

At this moment it looks like number 1 is my solution for this moment. I am pretty familiar with WinMerge as I used to work with that program in the past.

The second suggestion, git (you probably mean github.com?), is something that I really need to learn. I just created a new repository, added one translated file at https://github.com/Ewoud/EasySocial, but from there I am completely lost. I do not understand how I can compare it to an updated language file. It's probably right in front of me, but I do not see it. Maybe I need some good night sleep, coffee, and a clear mind, and try it again

Number 3 is a nice solution indeed. But I am afraid that it will be almost impossible to keep track on any changes in the original language file. For example, if Stackideas makes a very small change in a language string, lets say COM_EASYBLOG_WHATEVER is changed into COM_EASYBLOG_WHATEVERR, I will not notice this small change when I skip a few versions.

Again, thanks a lot for your explanation.

hy ewoud,
sure - if you're familiar with winmerge then no need to switch to another tool

for git: well, github is a popular place to hold your git repo's but you could also do this locally on your computer. the easiest way I found to get started is this: http://try.github.io/levels/1/challenges/1

for number3: I agree that this solution won't help you keep track on changes it just simplifies the work as you don't need to touch the original file every time. however if you don't change the easyblog main language file and then download the new version it might be much easier to compare these 2 original sources instead of comparing one original file with a modified one

but as everyone has a different workflow I'd say just use the method you're most comfortable with - as long as your way fits best for yourself everything should be fine

Thanks for sharing Alex

Hi Alex,

Thanks for being patience and your very clear explanations and help. The link for learning Git is a great one. This will help me learn git for sure.

Like you say, I will use the method that will suit me best. Not sure yet which one it wil be in the end, but for now WinMerge is my friend .

Regards,
Ewoud

Thanks for sharing Ewoud.