By Captain Tango on Friday, 05 September 2014
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I know i said that I was done offering advice, but before I actually leave this community (because $100 was a lot to pay for something I will not use). I figured I will at least get my $100 worth and tell you exactly what I think, and exactly why I am switching back to JomSocial.

EasySocial is a great concept, I love the idea, and what features it does have are mostly superior to JomSocial in every way. So on what you have done, I have to say, GREAT JOB GUYS.

It is what EasySocial doesn't have that makes it absolutely worthless to me (and to anyone who wants to run a real community).

There is no front end administration/moderation with EasySocial. None what so ever. Non existent, and with any community of more than 400 people this is NEEDED. This is not a want it is a need. It is fundamentally vital to the health and usability of a community website for moderators to have the ability to moderate the site, from editing/removing content, to banning users, to limiting access to users etc. Without this EasySocial is simply going to fail, there is no question about it. Before doing anything else with EasySocial this needs to be added, it is more important than any other pending feature.

Next on the list is Videos. I know, it doesn't sound like an important thing. But it is. First off parsing videos from just a handful of sites is not enough. There are literally millions of websites out there that host videos, and inevitably users will try to use one that isn't supported. There needs to be a better way to add video parsers. The way it stands you have to completely build a new parser for each site that you want to add, this shouldn't be the case. You should be able to add any site that uses a standard format and just have it work.

Also on videos the lack of ability to upload videos is beyond asinine. Simply put this is a feature that could easily be handled with the video parser and a 3rd party component for Joomla!... so the question then becomes, why has StackIdeas not done this? It would take them all of MAYBE 2 hours to do, the fact that they have not tells me they simple do not care about what people actually want, and really just want to do things their way.

Facebook style Pages (something JomSocial doesn't have as well). This feature is so basic to social networking at this point that the fact that noone is doing is absolutely amazes me. If you can't figure out hwo to do it, simply create a system that allows a single user to have multiple profiles, and go from there. That at least is a start.

3rd Party Plugins, I know I harp on this one a lot, and many people will say this is not StackIdeas fault, and I say it absolutely is. The people at StackIdeas have freely admitted that they have not tested a single one of the 3rd party plugins, and they should be testing them all. If a company is going to release a product that works with your product, you should make **** sure that their product works correctly, and lives up to the same level of standards that your core product does. Otherwise you simply end up with a subpar product, as is what is happening now with EasySocial.

This post is turning into a book, so I will stop at this point. If StackIdeas can figure out and fix these things, let me know, I may be willing to give it another shot and offer more suggestions on ways to improve.
Well, I for one prefer well thought out and well developed components. So that is why despite there being some missing features, I am willing to be patient. Stackideas ALWAYS delivers. Even if sometimes it takes longer than we had hoped. You cannot compare a product that is less than a year old to one that is 8 or so years old in terms of feature set. That is just not realistic.

Additionally, suggesting that Stackideas should add a simple video feature developed in 2 hours is very selfish and inconsiderate towards other subscribers. I eagerly await the upcoming Video feature, but I want it well planned, well developed, well integrated and highly optimized. Not some half assed feature like you suggest.

In terms of 3rd party plugins, I am subscribed to more than 20 3rd party components many of which integrate with EasySocial. I am the first to admit that most 3rd party developers need to step up their game. But I have to say, I have never seen a development team work so hard on helping third party developers integrate their components into their products as Stackideas. JomSocial was notoriously bad for this, I never found a working third party component... and for a long time I had to subscribe to some third party components made by one of the JomSocial developers, as the main branch refused to innovate. Anyone remember suburbans.org? JomSocial was so bad at innovating and so slow at implementing new features that one of their developers started selling third party addons to improve feature set. (Note: I do not know if he was 100% an employee at JomSocial at the time, however I know he is now)
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Friday, 05 September 2014 14:27
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Well, you really can't compare the two component. Easysocial is less than a year as far as we all know. Jomsocial is more than 3 years old and compared to the timeline, easysocial has been developing and giving us great features and updates almost monthly. The video will be available in 2 to 3 months (1.4 roadmap). As for the 3rd party, I believe it's really the third party developers who should support their development and not stackideas, and I believe stackideas have the full documentation of their API's. It's been only a year or so that jomsocial become stable again after Merav takes over it.

And as far as support is concerned, I never see a post unanswered here that's more than 24 hours, and I can say that's pretty impressive.
Ken
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Friday, 05 September 2014 14:41
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Ken, JomSocial is not only 3 years old, it is atleast 8 years old. I was still in high school when I used it for the first time lol. Yeah, for me Stackideas is by far the best Joomla Development team in the world. I would even go as far as the best development team I have worked with in my 10+ years developing sites on Mambo/Joomla platform. Here is my warm hearted thank you I wrote last week: http://stackideas.com/forums/a-warm-hearted-thank-you-to-the-hard-working-stackideas-team it covers everything that is great about Stackideas and their products Just to keep this thread balanced and positive. Don't want a repeat of last weeks complaint thread started by the same person starting this thread
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Friday, 05 September 2014 14:46
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That said, to keep it balanced, I will say, front end administration/moderation would be a fantastic addition. So Tango thanks for pointing that one out
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Friday, 05 September 2014 14:47
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Is there a way to like the request? Frontend moderation is really a cool idea
Ken
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Friday, 05 September 2014 14:55
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I understand the need for moderation tools on the frontend. Not too long ago I showed Mark a simple method which he liked and has the possibility of getting added some day. What I'm getting at is I can be pretty sure EasySocial will have the proper moderation tools that we need on the frontend. Patience goes a long ways with the stacked team! I'm really liking what I see with ES 1.3 beta 3. I'd have to be crazy to want to swap to something else.

Bottom line: If you need videos and such immediately and can sacrifice quality, a swap may be right for you. But if you can wait a few more months, it will be worth your while to stick with ES.
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Friday, 05 September 2014 16:10
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I guess I should have mentioned, that I refuse to engage in a flame war with your users any longer, so if Mark would like to respond and actually get through to me, he knows how to find me on twitter, and should still have a valid email address that he can email me on.
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Friday, 05 September 2014 17:35
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I don't think anyone wants to flame anyone. I just think most subscribers here at Stackideas are incredibly impressed by their products and support. So we get very confused when someone isn't. While some of your feedback is very legitimate, the tactics used to get your points across reduce their effectiveness. I think had you written a positive in depth analysis on areas of possible improvements, without trying to get a refund outside of the return policy window because you got impatient a couple of months into your subscription. As well refrain from bashing Stackideas on Twitter... you would have had more positive results. I have lots of ideas on how to bring EasySocial to the next level, and I think I would have agreed with a lot of your ideas too. But expecting all of the features at once is just selfish and a recipe for disaster. This thread definitely has a better tone than your last one. But your last thread certainly managed to offend a lot of people who felt you were rude, selfish and inconsiderate.

I wish you luck on your future endeavors, but as a person who has subscribed to both JomSocial and Stackideas products for many years. I do need to warn you. The business ethics over at iJoomla/JomSocial are protectionist rather than customer oriented. I do think that in the long run you will be regret going back.

Additionally, while I won't go as far as call it a million dollar software like Josh. I will say that the amount of hours put in to EasySocial as well as support make the "100' dollars a cheap price. In the US you would not be able to get a single hour worth of labor by anyone remotely as talented.

I personally think one of these days you will wake up and realize that you let impatience and desperation push you to a point where you offended a lot of people, and burnt some very valuable bridges for nothing. By the time you rebuild using JomSocial the odds are EasySocial will offer some of these so called "critical" features you can't shut up about (particularly video).

Anyway, best of luck. It is always sad to see a once respected member of any community go down hill and eventually leave the community. Until last week I think you were well respected and well liked on these forums.
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Friday, 05 September 2014 19:42
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I've read valid points made by all contributors on this thread. But I've made my decision for the most talented, focused, and committed group and am doing my part in the open community. I've been working on a non-Joomla based project and so I could wait until 1.3 with Events to start really becoming engaged. I understand that not everyone has that flexibility.

EasySocial 1.4 will start sometime soon and we're all looking forward to videos I'm going to post about my other 1.4 "2 cents" soon but since it's been discussed here I invite you to review, vote for, and add to a voices request for Administration Roles.

As to the nascent Apps ecosystem, I recommend highly the following 3rd-party integrated/compatible apps. I have been fortunate enough to receive awesome support from each of these vendors. I can only list those I've actually used so far so this list will certainly grow. Oh, and I'm working on an App for site webmasters myself (hint hint stay tuned this fall):


  • JRreviews
  • JGive
  • User Switcher by Foobla
  • Sample Profiles & Geommunity
  • YooRecipe
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Friday, 05 September 2014 23:53
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Hello Tango,

I have always appreciated all the feedback that you and other users have provided to us and no, if you think that we simply discard your ideas / suggestions / don't give a crap about what our customer says, you are absolutely wrong here. Any team member on our company can vouch for this, almost every week, I have brought up ideas that you guys presented. I know, some features that you are looking for is not available on EasySocial but look, Rome wasn't build in a day or even a month.

As for building a video upload within 2 hours, please if you could do this within 2 hours based on our specifications, we would pay you to do this for us You are talking about plain video uploads and no video processing. If all you want is just a medium for you to upload videos and display it with a flash player, I am sorry but we will NEVER EVER deliver crappy solutions to our customers. You need to either rely on FFMpeg (Which most hosting company doesn't allow) or online video encoding service. If you can do all of this within 2 hours, please send me your paypal account and we will be glad to pay you for this functionality.

I was the lead developer of JomSocial back then and I must insist to let you know that the videos and events only came up after 2 year, EasySocial is not even a year old. If you don't believe me, please take a look at this post, http://www.jomsocial.com/blog/farewall-my-dear-friends . Not only did it came in the second year, the video itself is pure crap back then! Do you even want a crappy video solution? What's the point of having a crappy video solution when you can't even use it on your site?

Let me give you a brief history of JomSocial, it was created in 6 months and the initial design of JomSocial is absolutely crap. The initial design of JomSocial wasn't even designed internally, it was outsourced to another company here in Malaysia. Cleaning up their mess was the biggest issue that we had

If you think that you JomSocial is what you need, seriously, by all means I would strongly advise you to go ahead with that I know exactly the limitations of JomSocial and the tons of flaws which I have seen in JomSocial. I am not bad mouthing them but I am speaking based on my experience when I was building JomSocial back then.


P/S: I am not trying to flame or start an argument with anyone here. I am speaking here based on my 11 years of experience dealing with Joomla extensions.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 01:20
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@Josh definitely as to videos and business opportunity. Value can be found by leveraging the other guys commodity/infrastructure by augmenting, delivering, customizing, making it more easily accessible, extendable, or easier to organize and thereby create the added-value that users won't find at the data warehouse.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 01:21
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Excellent responses!

Sense of Community



Besides the amazing team, the world-class software being developed, and being part of meaningful development process, what I find most valuable and rewarding is interacting with very interesting, knowledgeable people from around the globe that are always willing to offer their insights and ideas with others while building a strong sense of community in these forums. Being part of this community (StackIdeas forums) offers so much more than what any other Joomla based extension communities offer. As Mark always says, "Rome wasn't built in a day." It's been almost one year since the first alpha version of EasySocial first was offered here to community members. We all learn so much from each other as long as we continue to forge the strong sense of community. After all, isn't that what EasySocial is all about! Building strong communities.

SENSE OF COMMUNITY

The five factors for building sense of community are:

1. Shared Emotional Connection,
2. Membership,
3. Influence,
4. Integration and Fulfillment of Needs.
and the most important one...
5. RESPONSIBILITY.



The sense of community here offers so many linked benefits to members allowing us all the hope of being part of generating positive change.

Further readings and more valuable, insightful information on sense of community can be found here:

http://www.senseofcommunityresearch.org/sense-of-community/what-is-sense-of-community
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 01:29
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image upload

For some strange reason I could not add this attachment to my post above. This is a solution.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 01:53
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Belonging: Becoming an Important Part of a Community

Whether a participant in the forums, or an onlooker just taking it all in, we all share one thing in common - we are all social creatures. It's simply a human trait. Whether an introvert or an extrovert, shy or expressive, we need to know that we are part of a Community. We need to feel that we have others with whom we connect and share commonalities. Each of us needs to feel accepted for who we are and to be known for our strengths, yet also understood and forgiven for our weaknesses. Psychologist Abraham Maslow (1943) placed the need for belonging just after basic physiological and safety needs in his hierarchy of human needs.

When you feel the need to belong and be part of this Community again, come back - offer your insights, debate ideas, be positive, patient and understanding, because this demonstrates you are accepting and respectful of others, but please be responsible and use some common sense before deciding that drinking a bottle of vodka on a Monday while participating in open forums thinking this is the best method to get your points across. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this is not the best way to expect others to take you seriously in the community.

I will be making a T-SHIRT very soon that says: Common Sense is No Longer Common



Perhaps I could ask others to help me translate this simple combination of words into other languages for the back of T-Shirt design, thus making the T-Shirt design I am working on truly international. ???
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 02:44
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Basic T-Shirt Design first draft
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 02:46
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Thanks Eileen,

Just added the links for others to easily find them.

Eileen's highly recommended 3rd-party integrated/compatible apps. with links:

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Saturday, 06 September 2014 04:52
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Mark wrote:

As for building a video upload within 2 hours, please if you could do this within 2 hours based on our specifications, we would pay you to do this for us You are talking about plain video uploads and no video processing. If all you want is just a medium for you to upload videos and display it with a flash player, I am sorry but we will NEVER EVER deliver crappy solutions to our customers. You need to either rely on FFMpeg (Which most hosting company doesn't allow) or online video encoding service. If you can do all of this within 2 hours, please send me your paypal account and we will be glad to pay you for this functionality..


Oh?? How much you willing to pay? Because I have already looked into bridging HWDMediashare into EasySocial, and that would not take long at all to complete.

Doing this still won't help with any of the other issues, Front End Administration still being the most prominent issue, and one that could be solved by a 3rd party developer but really should be solved in house by StackIdeas.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 07:58
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Tango Acquired wrote:

Oh?? How much you willing to pay? Because I have already looked into bridging HWDMediashare into EasySocial, and that would not take long at all to complete.


What your talking about is integration with other components. The stacked team wants native Videos which in my opinion would be far more superior for ease of making the site and for the user experience. I'm not doubting HWDMediashare to be a good component, however the photo gallery is built so well in Easysocial that it has created a ton of confidence in how the video design will be.

Tango Acquired wrote:
Doing this still won't help with any of the other issues, Front End Administration still being the most prominent issue, and one that could be solved by a 3rd party developer but really should be solved in house by StackIdeas.


All in it's proper time. I don't doubt for a second that months from now this will likely be included too.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 08:50
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Tango,

Like I have said earlier, we will pay you if you can get all of this running in 2 hours (native videos) Not integrating with 3rd party extensions
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 12:12
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Mark wrote:

Tango,

Like I have said earlier, we will pay you if you can get all of this running in 2 hours (native videos) Not integrating with 3rd party extensions


Mark,

“My bullsh*t meter is reading Tango's claim to get all of this running in 2 hours as 'false'.”



Pretty sad how a person believes their own bullsh*t and the stories they make up in their head.
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 13:07
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Hello Randall,

To be honest, I have never underestimated anyone and if Tango is able to come up with the videos functionality based on our specifications within 2 hours, he earns my respect
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Saturday, 06 September 2014 23:23
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I am usually
Mark wrote:

Hello Randall,

To be honest, I have never underestimated anyone and if Tango is able to come up with the videos functionality based on our specifications within 2 hours, he earns my respect


Mark,

I am usually the eternal optimist, and encourage everyone, but in this case all the credibility this person had is lost.

Cows will fly before this person implements videos functionality based on your specifications within 2 hours.

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Sunday, 07 September 2014 01:00
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Hi Everyone,

I am a newbie to EasySocial (purchased and installed today) having been with Jomsocial for 5 years now. I am well impressed by what I see so far (with EasySocial), although there are still some features it doesn't have that I would like to see - but it may be that I don't know the product well enough yet to say this, so bear with me.

On my wish list is also the Video obviously, but also an Events component. I have to say i love the Calendar, and also the idea of Appointments (but as yet not sure how to create these) but can see the vision and where they (StackIdeas) are going with this.

Frontend moderation would be nice - the reason being that some of us manage/host our solutions for our clients and don't want our clients (who own the sites containing the 'social network') to have access to the administrator areas, as they can mess things up through a lack of knowledge and technical ability. Plus the back-end Administrator area terrifies and bewilders some clients in my experience.

It takes a lot to build trust with application providers. I have had some bad experiences over the years, but I have to say that Mark and his team have provided an impeccable service and they are one of the few companies I trust with my back-end access.

Up until recently, Jomsocial support was poor, and even now (depending on the support staff member you get) you get the 'this requires alot of customisation to the code, here is a list of developers who can do this for you' or words to that effect. You never get that here at StackIdeas, they are always 'on it' and go the extra mile to help you - even with 3rd party components.

I am happy to wait and see the new features unfold. I am definitely a StackIdeas advocate and can't fault them in any way. I am looking for a community component that is geared more toward a business need, that uses the social elements but in a business context.

Here is my wishlist (apologies if this is the wrong place to post it - please move if necessary):

1. The ability to select a business or social community (here the language changes so that things like Friend become Contact and so on) - no other provider offers this!

2. Ability to add Video (as others have specified) from main external sources like YouTube and Vimeo but also the ability to upload to own server (this is required for some clients as they do not want to publish their videos on public websites - they are for internal users only).

3. Events (like Jomsocial where we can add events directly from status etc. but to have it with the calendar and appointments integrated)

4. Tasks (ability to create templates - ideally a user can select the template and it populates the Milestone/Tasks with a list that the user has to enter desired start and finish dates, plus ability to be able to assign one or more people to the task - as sometimes a task has multiple people involved) - a kind of collaborative tool for project management - what you have is close but could be much more powerful

5. Ability to create/restrict to a template for the file upload structure (again for project management/business purposes)


Mel
Mel
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 02:23
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Kudos to Stackideas for not censoring him. The world needs annoying people. (seriously) Anyone can be a sycophant or fan boy and I throw up in my mouth a little for every one that I meet. (as you imagine, I spent a week in the hospital after the last Macworld and am still having psychedelic nightmares involving images of Steve Jobs and hipsters). I've always thought that Tango makes some good points (minus the other crap) and IMHO it is stupid and short sited for any company to not give a refund to a customer that wants one. There is all kinds of business intelligence to support this but in a KISS Principle (it is "Keep It Simple Stupid" by the way not the wussified "Keep It Simple Silly" alternative that I cannot imagine what kind of depraved Kathy Bates Misery monster came up with that...) kind of way you should just consider how much time and energy you as a business owner waste on unhappy customers. How much time has Mark wasted here? The flip side is even more important. Having customer advocates/evangelists. In any event, the problem is hyperbole. As soon as the discussion gets into hyperbole it is no longer worthwhile.
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 10:36
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Hi Josh,

You should probably get familiar with EasySocial, before you implement ideas.
You are correct, and also, I don't want to hijack this thread by diverting it away to my wishlist

I can't see where it does #1 nor #4 I know we can create milestones and task list, but can't see where we can use pre-defined set of milestones and set tasks. TBH I don't think I explained it well. We basically have projects that follow the exact same steps/processes every time (a list of about 30) So rather than create the Milestone/tasks from scratch each time a new collaborative project group is started, I thought if we could load a template (or select the milestones/tasks from a picklist or something) then it would speed up the process and also ensure each project was recorded in exactly the same way (for performance management purposes etc.). I appreciate this is a personal preference and developers have to draw the line with 'feature requests and wishlists' but I just thought it would be a good idea to put thoughts out there - as you never know

I think I need to spend a little while longer digging around a bit more Excited that #3 Events is coming - any idea when? weeks/months? Thanks for the advice and sorry to have gone off topic with this.
Mel
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 19:20
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Hi Josh,

No I didn't think you were a moderator, but you looked to be an experienced user who had knowledge about the changes afoot

I have downloaded and installed the beta 1.3 v4 and well impressed. I am working on a none live site so this is ok for me.

Yes, I am using it for business - to manage Invite Only Group Projects. The way the process would work in my case is:

1. A Member creates an Invite Only Group for their project team

2. Project team members are invited to that group

3. The Group Admin creates a new Task List which includes for example 4 Milestones and 5 Tasks under each Milestone - but instead of creating this from new, there is an option to load a previous Task List that is already populated with the exact same 5 Milestones and related Tasks that were created for a previous project. This pre-built Task List would need to be available to all group Creators

4. The Admin then changes the 'Dates' and the 'Responsibility Of' to its current members.

There could be thousands of members needing to create new Project Groups, but they will all use exactly the same Task List, Milestones and Tasks, so to save time, having some way to load this standard 'Task List' would be ideal.

Something I looked at was Checklist Pro: http://www.joomplace.com/joomla-components/checklist-extension.html which lets you create new checklists from a previous template. But this wouldn't work with EasySocial, and for me personally, i think EasySocial's Tasks is better for my needs.

I am not sure if I have explained that any clearer - or confused more

I am conscious that I have moved away from the original thread here - apologies

Mel
Mel
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 22:09
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Hey guys,

Let's all relax I think what Mel is pointing out here is that she wants to have the ability to have a list of "task templates" which can be applied when a new milestone is created. In my opinion, this is a cool idea (but whether if it is practical for most of our users would be another question for sure).

As always, I strongly recommend that ideas / feature requests to be submitted at http://stackideas.com/voices/easysocial as this is what crowdsourcing is all about. You get to vote on your features and we get to pick the most voted items when we work on major releases.

This way, we get less confusions and the forums would also be a better place for most of us
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 22:50
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I would love to see something along those lines. Any type of goals tracking or project management features that can be added at some point are very welcome. I have tried to subscribe to Personal Goals Manager by JoomPlace but they have never been able to get it to work on my site due to several compatibility conflicts... and sadly that is the only Goals Manager that is available for Joomla.
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Sunday, 07 September 2014 23:00
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Looks like the thread starter has locked this post Maybe you guys should start a new thread instead.
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Monday, 08 September 2014 01:17
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