Paul,

My best guest would be the following:

Use a component that has multi vendor: Quick2cart, HikaShop(Market).
They have they products that they sell upon which you can take a certain percentage.
Upon sales: add the buyer manually with a sql to the group he bought.

There is a little bit of code to do on the buying part to add but this isn't too much complicated either.

Alex

@Paul, I have a forum query @ ReadyBytes where you could maybe add your comments if it appears the feature described is what you're also looking for.

I've contacted Techjoomla in the past on the idea of using the multi-vendor Quick2Cart to sell access to content and they shared a doc that details how this can be done ("Integration of Quick2cart with other components"). I don't know if that's a public doc yet but you can query techjoomla via a ticket (best response rate).

Hey Eileen

I was at one point a subscriber to PayPlans and can log in to their site but as far as I can see I can not post in there forum i.e. Reply to your thread. Probably need an active subscription.

If you want to post for me C/O Eilleen
Please feel free:

***************************************************************************
Hello PayPlans team

I am a former user of your product. I had it up and running on a Site of mine about 2 years ago. I found your product very powerful and the support here is great. However I had to abandoned the project due to lack of time and resources. I want to have another go at this. And can imagine buying your product again within the next 6 months for integration with Easy Social.

There are a growing number of Easy Social users who want to take the power of Easy Social Groups & Payplans to the next level. I am currently following a lot of threads over in the Stackideas forum and there are some great ideas there flying around…

As mentioned in the Blog link that Eileen posted above we are curious about where this functionality is in the Payplans Road Map? Having this functionality would I believe be a win, win situation for all involved :-)

thanks in advance Paul

***************************************************************************

With respect to techjoomla.
I have had a couple of dealing with them and to be honest I would be very slow to jump in a boat with them again.
I found the PayPlans team to be almost as good as the SI Team

If you post in my name please let me know and I will see if I can at least read the thread.

thanks advance

Paul

ps cool thing is that I notice that I have the chance to get a 30% discount if I renew my old subscription

@Paul thanks, I've taken you up on the offer to post your comments. As with other feature requests those that have traction with customers typically find their way into the roadmap

@ Eileen thanks for that. I still can not view the replies. I can only view your original question. Please update if you here anything.
By the way Eileen do you have a live site that I could look at?

@ Anyone else reading this.
Check out the way Payplans integrates with ES as of now here:
http://www.readybytes.net/payplans/apps.html#/app/
And maybe ask your self the question if it would make more sense to apply plans on a group by group basis.
I personally think this would open up a lot of doors....

a) Join a Site
b) Fill out yours areas of interest
c) Get invited to groups that cover your areas of interest
d) Pay money to join and get extra content
e) Get members to set up there own areas of interest etc

Here are my first fledgling attempts to implement this here:
http://finalbug.net/groups

Anyone else want to share ideas? Live Sites?

Hi Paul,

I'm also on the same boat, but there has been no progress on my part, hope you can find a solution and enlighten me. As i believe Paid Groups is a killer feature. Someone from Readybytes had commented that they are waiting from Hooks (?) from ES.

I was going through Uservoice of ES, and i had come across that hat ES was also planning to have a payment gateway, but it was since 2013, although the uservoice was accepted, but i dont see it anywhere in ES, maybe Mark can throw some light on this.

regards
Sunny

Hi Sunny

Yes I saw that.
http://stackideas.com/voices/easysocial/item/98#
I voted for that feature at some point and have made a comment now.

Yes Mark? Any thoughts?

best

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the heads up on this one. We are currently quite occupied with the EasySocial 1.4 release and we will definitely come back to this again once we are working on the next milestone

Thanks.

Hi Eileen

I was going my old threads and bookmarking them and came across this one gain.
I was wondering if you made any progress @ PayPlans

best

Paul

Hi Paul,

In short, no. Their response was:

Hey Elieen, Thanks for the message. We discussed with StackIdeas for the possibility of ACLs. Which is required to manage groups access. Currently its based on ProfileTypes, and user cannot have multiple profile types at once. So you will not be able to sell more then one group. Second option is to build full fledge ACL app for EasySocial, which we are discussing in team. If any of you is interested in such plugin, please let us know if you can fund the efforts. Thanks Shyam

From what I understand, the approach they want to take is to create a "full-fledged" ACL, and truth is I don't understand why they'd need that since ES already supports private groups and any user can create a private group with possibility of requesting membership via invitation.

I'd think all PayPlans needs is:

1) Create a PayPlans "Paid Groups App" that allows any user to configure their PayPal ID
2) Enable users of their PayPlans "Paid Group App" to select from their existing "private" ES Groups they created, if they want to enable paid access to that group, and what the price and duration of access is.
3) The PayPlans "Paid Groups App" would automatically add a link to any private ES Group where the owner marked a paid price to enter, and display a link "Pay to join this group".
4) The PayPlans "Paid Groups App" would grant the user access upon payment. I'd expect they'd just create the db changes necessary to reflect that the "paid" user is now an approved "member" of the group, bypassing the user's need to request an invitation to join.

FYI I sent this modified request over, feel free to contact them as well.

Hi Eileen

Wow this is getting a little over my head.
But I think if I translate my experience from FCPX and 3rd party apps to this situation I can get it.

In it s simplest form there are hooks from the Stack Ideas side.
And there are 3rd party developers who are willing/not willing to grab these hooks and build applications.
And there is the all in house SI way.

There is also this thread here:

http://stackideas.com/forums/easysocial-2-0-roadmap

Where Josh Lewis makes an interesting point:

The major version change allows Stackideas to make major revamps to the JavaScript methods and much more. As I understand it this will break backwards compatibility with older apps/plugins. Think of it as a way of saying "alright everyone, time to update your extensions to work with the big release". It makes it obvious to developers.

And back to John´s question with respect to voices:

Voices has become a platform for us users to let you know what we want to see, this is fine and dandy but with the announcement of EasySocial going from 1.4 - 2.0 and skipping versions 1.5 - 1.9 this opens the question about the voices items that have been accepted for versions 1.5 - 1.9 and even the inclusion of items marked for 2.0.

http://stackideas.com/voices/easysocial/accepted

So I am kind of thinking aloud here:

- Even if there is a 3rd party solution it will probably break down if only temporarily
- If I were a third party app developer I would be very wary about investing time money in something that would become obsolete!
- If any one can implement this then SI can
- Maybe it is worth sitting this one out.

I am more or less a one man show so there are about a million things I can do.

- I can set things up for free and wait for the multi group paid functionality.
- I can set up one paid group and use it as a test ballon
- There are even if I am no mistaken some free shops!!!

When I have a chance I will do some more research into some of the shops suggested in this thread.

I guess that what we are missing now is a SI timeline.
There is currently no indication of how long all of this will take.
I have no idea what so ever. But maybe 1-2 years?

Take Videos for e.g..
So we had to wait for ages. OK.
But when it came out. It was amazing.
Maybe not as powerful as HWD Share but honestly, I am a video guy and I do not need all the bells and whistles that HWD share had.
I will not be renewing my HWD Share subscription.
I have a couple of minor suggestiions with respect to VI Videos but they really are minor.

When I have a chance I will do some more research into some of the shops suggested in this thread.

Also really important from my perspective is that I want people to be able to use points to purchase stuff.
FYI I also love the idea with "bounties" from “Dave Parker” mentioned here:
http://stackideas.com/forums/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-forums
Which you also picked up on.

Back to my FCPX analogy.
I know it is a parallel universe but lets put it like this.
After 4 years Apple managed to build the house.
It has walls, a roof, plumbing, and electricity
Now the contractors are coming in and putting in the windows, doors and plaster on the walls.

How old is ES any way?
Honestly I can not remember.
Off the top of my head I would say 18 months?

I am very curious to see how all this develops

all the best

Paul

@Paul, always appreciate your metaphors and descriptions of the way things are. I've actually learned alot following your issues posted here and their resolutions.

On payments generally, I think the feature is unlike most other feature/functions ES has grown to offer and promises in the future. To me, ecommerce is much more nuanced depending on the purpose/audience of the site using ES.

The more likely that site is purposed to ecommerce, the more likely the need for a unified solution/component.

For example, when you go to a department store you expect no matter which department you are in, you will find the same payment facility (same cash register, same requirements to fill transaction, etc.). Online is similar such as Amazon, Etsy, or Envato. Whether you are purchasing from the "owner" of the site or one of the site members, you have a unified and similar payment facility (user interface, accepted gateways, UX).

When I have time to address paid groups I'm going to see about integrating Techjoomla Quick2Cart for the purpose. As I mentioned before, their solution enabling ecommerce with JReviews works well and they've provided docs instructing how it could be applied to other cases. Hopefully I can get to this in these next couple of months and if/when I do I'll share results here.

Hi Guys,

I have built a component to override ES's group creation process because of the need to add more features like Groups per Service type, per Country, per Region and Sub categories. My project involve the need to sell these upon their Group categories to be enabled for these particular filters. I wish I would have been able to directly sell groups but it was a little bit too much basic on options to directly sell them straight... however, once it will be done, I can share the basics of the code.

My component that template overrides Group creation will be link with Techjoomla's Quick2cart. It already involves multi-stores and good features plus, they are pretty knowledgable of ES code. I intend on having it enabling a sort of token system. If you pay for a specific category, it will look if you have a token to create or not (both on UI and through a custom field checkout). It is a basic system but I think it is a good start.

As to comment on use of point on ES to Pay, i wanted to do the same as a virtual currency but I don't feel comfortable on day 1 to use it when its so tight up with ES. My solution would be to use AlphaPoints. Mainly because you can maybe add it on top of ES (which has to me maybe more control and firewall) and it working with quick2cart.

Unfortunatly, right now, I don't think there could be a "good" solution to group payment because as you said ES is quite young and it needs more time to mature so that features could be more complex. That extra layer of things will be specific to every project and this is what makes it complex in its own way. If Mark and SI could add sorting and filter options on groups, this could provide my code to be universal. However, code quality and feature quality need times and it might be long.

However, you can inspire yourself from our way to make it work. It is not really user friendly if you can't program but it's doable.

Hope this might have helped.

Alex

@Paul,

Please check >this< and let me know your thoughts (but it seems the whole demo site has not been updated and throws 404 on some occasions ).
I bought another extension from that company because there was a plugin listed in Stackideas app store but it has been removed just after I bought the component ( Mad). I would like to ask Mark if he can help me save what is now lost investment.
I just submitted this question to Mark and referred you in that post.

Thanks for the heads up on this Supporter

@ Eileen

Thanks for your kind words.
I look forward to hearing how you get on with building your shop.
And yes I take your points about a unified paying system.
There is nothing worse than struggling to pay people money because the interface *****.

@ Alexandre

Thanks for the detailed answer.
If I understand you correctly you have designed something:
- that helps split groups up more precisely
- is linked to a payment system
- you are attempting to integrate ES points
- you want to use Alpha points as it gives you more options

Do you have a link or some kind of demo site/further information?

Thinking aloud here:

Did you see Supporter´s link
He posted it in another thread:
https://www.corejoomla.com/products/community-answers.html
He posted it in conjunction with a bounty system idea mentioned here:
http://stackoverflow.com/help/bounty
Here is the link:
https://www.corejoomla.com/products/community-answers.html

I did have Alpha points running in my CB days and found it seriously unintuitive.
In all fairness though both Alpha points and I have probably developed in the last couple of years ;-)

If you are not aware of it maybe this also helps:

https://www.nordmograph.com/extensions/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=22&virtuemart_category_id=8&Itemid=58

For me the end game would be as follows.

I have users with profiles.
On their profiles they list tools of trade (e.g. Photoshop, FCPX etc)
I have groups where users can create and promote courses. (e.g. Photoshop, FCPX etc)
Match up users and course groups.
I really like the ideas of groups.
For e.g. I could give an editing assignment and get people to give feed back in a group.
Discuss each others edits etc…

@ Supporter

I need some more time and will get back to you :-)

@Paul
This is a link where the component is used:
https://www.ostraining.com/courses/categories/joomla/

You will notice there are different groups, different teachers and so on
There is a payment configuration for Teachers and Admin

Also thinking out loud...
Paul why don't you:
- Use PayPlans, it has so many plans possibility (paid or not, moving joomla user groups, etc. etc.
- Use Gury for you and your teachers to sell your trainings classes
- Use EasyDiscuss instead of EasySocial to discuss the training classes?

hello, there is Joomshaper LMS :
http://www.joomshaper.com/joomla-extensions/sp-lms

jan! wrote:

hello, there is Joomshaper LMS :
http://www.joomshaper.com/joomla-extensions/sp-lms

My personal experience with them is the support is blow zero...irrelevant answers after waiting for their reply for dayS... Again only My personal experience...

Thanks supporter, i didnt try their solutions !

Hm, I am quite interested to venture into this as well. I wonder what sort of integrations that we could work with EasySocial and those LMS out there.

I also heard that Techjoomla created Shika eh?

Mark wrote:
I also heard that Techjoomla created Shika eh?

Follow this link to see the demo of Shika
399,99$ !! and for what they call "Shika Pre Order - Early Adopter Subscription"
There is no stable version yet and who knows when a bug free version will be released (cf: Apps from AppCarvers Early Adopter Subscriptions).

Guru is fully functional and used on http://www.ostraining.com and "only" costs 297$
I do not say it is the only and the best, there might be other components I am not aware of...

Sorry Mark, but I really do NOT understand your continual focus on Techjoomla/AppCarvers products....to my eyes that company is managed by - please excuse my word - "swindlers" or find a better appropriate word if you like...
------
EDIT
I would like to add:
Did you watch Apple Keynote? Who was invited to present the integration collaboration? Microsoft !
Do not fear your "competitors", provide solutions to your customers. That's the key !

Hi Guys

I am going to have a couple of runs at this.
And try and break things down as I see them.

Disclaimer I firmly believe that a picture is worth 1,000 words.

In the world of video editing and Final Cut Pro in particular…
There is are a couple of trainers/companies that are very successful.
Here is an e.g. of one of them.

http://www.rippletraining.com/

See the first screen shot.
Recently I bought a course on this Site.
The course description was essentially on a slide on the home page of the site.

I am going to leap frog the whole shop thing.
In a way I suspect that is probably the easiest thing to get up and running!
With the right support and 2-3 weeks hard work even I could get something like this up and running.

Back to the course I bought…
So once I have logged in and want to go to the training I have bought I see a menu point called “My Library”
Please see the second screen shot.

From here on in I am brought to nothing other than a play list. Third Screen shot.
The play list also has chapters which is a minor but important detail.
I am in a fancy play list. That is it. Or almost.
There is another menu point called “Project Files” where I can down load raw material.
This way I can follow along and try doing the stuff in the tutorials in my editing program at home.

I guess that this approach is more practice orientated and maybe it is easier to demonstrate.
e.g. I can play a clip set an In and Out point and add it in a timeline to another clip.
Something like “Akeeba” back up is less visual.
Do not get me wrong I love Akeeba but showing how the advanced setting work for back ups…
It is just not very visual and maybe needs more explanation etc

On a side note from a video perspective there is a thriving industry called “Explanation Video”
Here is a recent e.g. of one:

https://vimeo.com/132894483

It is arguably more effective than a detailed explanation

Back to topic again ;-)

The more I think about this the more I think that the video timeline/chapter list/comment section should be the spine of this beast.

Here is another link for a “Virtual User Group”

In its present form as far as I can make out it is a google hang out streamed to You Tube.
Which in turn is connected to some kind of live chat/comment system.

And I guess that brings me to my original reason for posting this question.
Easy Social has all of this crazy functionality and it seems to me to be a shame not to have it integrated tightly.

Back to the first Ripple Training e.g.

The menu points were “My Library” & “Project Files” why not a menu point “Discussions” & “My finished project Showcase”

more to follow

Paul

Forgot the link above and could not edit it back in. Probably a bug

Here is another link for a “Virtual User Group”

http://www.hazu.io/pixelcorps/fcvug-5

With respect to LMSs here are the ones I have found so far:

https://techjoomla.com/products/shika.html
http://www.joomshaper.com/joomla-extensions/sp-lms
https://guru.ijoomla.com/
http://www.king-products.net/index.php/kingproducts

To be honest, I am thinking two things.

1) Are they over kill for my purposes.
For eg: Online testing and exams to presentations and quizzes
Are just not for me. In my line of work being able to press the right button and make a beautiful video are often two very different things.

2) I really wonder if any of them are any good!

I too have had my Techjoomla experience and am not in a hurry to buy into their products again.
In this thread here Joomshaper LMS has not exactly been praised and in this thread here:

And here are more comments and feed back with respect to LMSs

http://stackideas.com/forums/lms-learning-management-system-elearning-for-es

In the above listed link both Guru and King LMS do not exactly get amazing reviews.

The thread goes on for ever and honestly I do not have the capacity to go through it in detail at them moment.

Ellen posts a great link in the thread as well:

http://www.capterra.com/learning-management-system-software/#infographic

I did log into the King Demo Site which is integrated with Easy Social and honestly it looks like it is from the last century.

http://www.king-products.net/demo-sites/lmsdemo3/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid=435

I guess that Guru is technically the most sophisticated of the solutions but if I understand things correctly they are affiliated with Joomnsocial.
It is possible that they will not integrate with Easy Social for political reasons in the near future.
But this is just speculation on my part.

Possibly my favourite feature in EB 5 are templates.

Here is my one of first attempt at a template:

http://finalbug.net/blog/entry/479-roles-beyond-with-role-o-matic

So for e.g. I can make a learn FCPX in 12 steps template etc

And I can not help wondering if it really is so different to a simple LMS.

- I have an intro/description.
- A video, some screen shots & a video and some screen shots
- some links
- At the end I have a profile link to the trainer/poster. (ES profile)

It is all boxes inside boxes.

- The Blog is posted in a group called Learn FCPX
http://finalbug.net/community/groups/item/17-learn-fcpx

Also the video functions are amazing. Lets face it...

- the videos are posted inside a video channel called:
http://finalbug.net/community/webinars/11-final-cut-pro
http://finalbug.net/community/webinars/group/17-learn-fcpx

And seeing as how I posted them they end up showing on my profile:
http://finalbug.net/profiledrop/62-paurray
http://finalbug.net/community/webinars/user/62-paurray

So I think I am pretty close to a LMS excluding a the testing etc
Which as I mentioned above is nit so important for me.

Also I am pretty sure that Eileen mentioned a testing plugin/component some where in a thread at some point!

@ Supporter
Will check out the ad agency thing next…

Paul,
May I send you a component for you to test?
I checked your website but there is no contact email information...

@ Supporter

Joomla AdAgency looking like a must have!
I have gone to the trouble to carve my site up into all kinds of categories from blog posts:

http://finalbug.net/blog/blog-home

To Learning groups:

http://finalbug.net/community/groups

through to profiles:

http://finalbug.net/community/browse-users

A friend of mine has been telling me that I need to do this for years.
I am currently running at 5,000 unique hits and expect to break the 10,000 hits towards the end of this year.
My Site started out as a pet project but is slowly becoming the main thing I work on.

Sure moving from the egg to the chicken as shown in (AdAgency) video is somewhat simplified but why not….

If I have so cash around christmass I will probably buy this Component :-)

thanks for your suggestions:

FYI that screen capture soft ware that was in one of you links for the Camtasia Studio 7 looks great.

Things I really liked:

- Animation
- Libraries
- Recording via web camera
- Mac/Pc
- Encode for web

Also as a matter of interest, a friend recently used a screen capture program (Screenflow) to record herself talking into her webcam.
She ask had a microphone connected.
She did not actually record the screen.
She probably used it for notes for her presentation.
Thinking aloud here that is also an option record your Power Point presentation from the screen whilst delivering it into the Webcame/Mic

that all for now folks

If any one has feed back I am all ears :-)

Paul

Hi Supporter

What is the component?
paul(at)finalbug.tv
If for what ever reason the component breaks the site which I am sure it will not you get to restore it. Deal?

Am backing up my site now

Paul

A least it did not break mine...
But a backup is always a safe procedure.

3 emails sent.
Did you received them?

Have you received or did you receive... Sorry for my bad english

Hi Supporter

Got your mails thanks.
I have to buy Ad agency sooner rather than later.
I always buy for the simple reason that I need support

best

Paul

There was a problem sending you Guru.
I wil try with another email account or later today.
I'm doing it today because I might be too busy at another time...

These are of course the light versions and not the full pro versions.
If possible but always test on your own before you buy.

(Good) support is what we all need

Paul Murray wrote:
I guess that Guru is technically the most sophisticated of the solutions but if I understand things correctly they are affiliated with Joomnsocial.
It is possible that they will not integrate with Easy Social for political reasons in the near future.
But this is just speculation on my part.

Hence my message to Mark

Supporter wrote:
I would like to add:
Did you watch Apple Keynote? Who was invited to present the integration collaboration? Microsoft !
Do not fear your "competitors", provide solutions to your customers. That's the key !

@ Supporter

You mentioned this in an email:

http://www.yoodiy.com/

The more i look at it the more I like it.
Just posting this here for any one else who stumbles across this thread

thanks again

Paul

Hi Paul,

My component isn't ready yet but it is getting there... I have added a screen to let you see what it looks like with a template override. If, in the end, it's not too project specific (which is the goal of having a back-end component from which groups/create.php takes the info) I will share it with the community.

If you guys have a version of GURU (with the jomsocial plugin) and you would like me to take a peak at it (acayer(a)colegal(dot)ca) I could see how hard it is to integrate it with ES. I have integrate projectfork and DPCalendar. I found that if it is well programmed actually, it isn't too much complicated to convert it to EasySocial.

Of the Stackidea vs iJoomla interaction... it is my understanding that there isn't quite a good "gravity" between them. If I'm correct, Mark has been there with them years ago. Not that I don't agree on Supporter's comment between Windows and Mac or vice-versa... Windows have been developping office, remote desktop and other apps for mac in the past and still do it now. It is now the same for iJoomla.

Yoo diy seems has good start potential, especially on UI, which I'm not a guru on my own (i program and not much design). I think every one on the list out there made my Paul have their own issues and nothing is perfect. Guru is probably one with the longest experience out there with a good price (vs. Shika which is in beta phase and people have had their experience or other like yoodiy which is cheap but miss features) but if we are here it is because ES is our backbone and Guru is created by guys from iJoomla...

Which there would be more solution out there...

On Ads:

AdAgency is iJoomla, they really have (historically) no interest in supporting ES integration

SocialAds integrates with ES (you can place ads based on user profile) is on Joomla Extension Directory, supports ES rated 98

On LMS:

My dream LMS 1) supports a multi-author/teacher configuration 2) offers admin/owner flexibility in fee stategy 3) integrates with ES. I wrote to iJoomla, they have no interest in supporting ES

I opted-in to the Shika Alpha and it's moved far since last year and in Beta 15. Good news: it works, has a great editor (EB-esk before EB 5), other parts are also particularly slick and valuable such as stop/pause/returning to lessons (supports video). And it's integrated with ES, works on other devices i.e. iPad. But, honestly early adopter license hasn't had much use at all this year (which is almost over, isn't it?). Any LMS really only has value for my purposes (and merits my time) when it supports mulit-user with front-end authoring, read/add to my blog comments if you like.

FYI, my favorite multi-author lms is not Joomla-based: Litmos
Here is a list of other known multi-user LMS for ref to compare where others in the industry are at:

Academy of Mine Link: http://www.academyofmine.com
Coggno Link: http://coggno.com/lms/sell-courses
CourseMerchant Link: http://www.coursemerchant.com/
Digital Chalk Link: http://www.digitalchalk.com
Educadium http://www.educadium.com/campuspay
EZLCMS Link: http://www.ezlcms.com/index.php/e-commerce/
Fedora Link: https://usefedora.com/
Guru Link: http://guru.ijoomla.com/
Inquisiq Link: http://www.inquisiqr3.com/solu...
Learning Cart Link: http://www.learningcart.com
Litmos Link: http://www.litmos.com
Udemy Link: http://www.udemy.com

Any body use jreviews here ? i am not sure but i think its a good alternative ..

Thanks for sharing this list Eileen!

Everyone, Guru is available for FREE without JomSocial and certain limited but accessible features, enough to try it out and @alexandre could size up integration with ES.

I may be alone in this regard, but my #1 need (outside of ES support) is multi-author which Guru has, today.

@Mark have you ever checked out Guru? I know SI sometimes entertains creating integration when it could lead to increased sales, happy customers, models of integration and "best practice" for other partners. The Pro version of Guru includes JomSocial with integration. Here's what this seems to be (just from reading their site, I haven't used it):

• My courses profile plugin
  
• My certificates profile plugin
  
• Courses I teach profile plugin
  
• Student activity stream plugin
  

It would be great to have these features:

• Optionally based on teacher/author request, a new course creates a dedicated ES Group with link
  
• Optionally based on teacher/author request, a new course creates a dedicated ED Discussion with link
  
• Teacher/author and student show with avatars wherever it makes sense, and site admins can select from the custom profile variables from teacher's ES profile that they'd like to be displayed in the "Teachers Profile" in Guru
  

Eileen, unfortunately the "jomsocial plugin" is in the pro version. Therefore, if anyone has a pro copy its a waste cause reverse engineer is impossible without a little map on how it is programmed. The way to make it work would be to copy that jomsocial plugin to easysocial plugin and change the appropriated hooked to get the userprofile url, the userprofile picture etc. this is the way I have saw the stuff integrated. At least with the proper hook key you can scann the rest of the code if you need specific hack, which i never had to in the past.

@Alexandre, I see it there would be a bit more effort finding where the hooks should go unless you were looking where they placed them for JomSocial.

However, @Mark and the team have probably integrated so many of their own ES Apps that it's second-nature to them about where they throw some bits to link them together I'd actually pre-purchase the "integration App(s)" from Stack if they would commit to develop them. @Paul even with your expertise, you can only make so many tutorials by yourself but with Guru you could do things like this to increase income for yourself by encouraging others to offer their expertise for sale on your site, but also increase community strength, network effects, etc.

Also, I wondered why iJoomla's works (AdAgency, Guru) isn't listed at Joomla and I think it's because they have dual GPL and proprietary licensing. I think generally modifying PHP is fine, but they're more restrictive for their css, javascript, etc. and I don't know that it would hobble stack at all for what they'd need to do for integration. Of course I make a huge assumption they'd even consider this, but just putting the idea out there.

Thanks for sharing this Eileen. If anyone can shoot me up with a Pro version to my email, mark AT stackideas.com, I will give this a try when I have some free time

@ Alexandre

I suspect that what you are doing is way to advanced for my need.
But maybe some day who knows...
As a matter of interest do you have a info about your ES & Project fork integration?
I am a big project fork fan.

@ Eileen

@Paul even with your expertise, you can only make so many tutorials by yourself but with Guru you could do things like this to increase income for yourself by encouraging others to offer their expertise for sale on your site, but also increase community strength, network effects, etc.

Yes, yes and yes.

You are preaching to the choir

Also love the extras that you would like:

Optionally based on teacher/author request, a new course creates a dedicated ES Group with link

Optionally based on teacher/author request, a new course creates a dedicated ED Discussion with link

Teacher/author and student show with avatars wherever it makes sense, and site admins can select from the custom profile variables from teacher's ES profile that they'd like to be displayed in the "Teachers Profile" in Guru

To the best of my knowledge there is no training with a group element online these days.
Would it not make sense then to have at least one amazing training with group element solution!

@ Mark, in my books competition is always a good thing. Shika would benefit from competition.

Hey Paul,

Been a great fan of Projectfork since version 3... however, Tobias and Kyle have desserted a long long time ago ( just look https://github.com/projectfork/Projectfork/issues). Only Angek has gone back recently. For me, a non-supported project is not viable commercialy. That was a so promising project and is falling into dust. I added code to get link and picture of user profile of ES. (a little bit like what GURU is needing with their plugin) I think on either finding a new free (cheap) one and adapt it for joomla/easysocial... which is not something easy. I will maybe instead create a light project/tasks/issues component for easysocial since at least I would be playing into my own code and not someone's else. Just which Projetfork could be delegated, they bump up support pricing (a little bit like Fabrikar is doing) and that they could continue to have an already good solution... I have thought of "forking" Projectfork for my own need but there is quite an heavy quantity of code... the only good pro of this is that this is already intergrated in joomla.

I agree that for Techjoomla to keep up the pressur, anyone needs competitor, rule one of market, more player the merrier!

LMS is not in part 1 of my project but I know I'm getting there, I'll try to help out as I can. I'm already working with Techjoomla's for customization and integration of my own group manager to quick2cart. I'm sure this could be the same with Shika + quick2cart is multi vendor.

Hey Alexandre

Sorry to hear about the slow demise of Project fork!
I bought into their Pro version years ago with "Lifetime Access".
Maybe that was part of the problem.

Fingers crossed that Mark or his team will have a look at connecting Guru & ES avatars
And maybe even some of the stuff that Eileen was mentioning above.

Where there is a will there is a way

all the best

Paul

@Mark, just want to confirm, you'll be able to do your magic with the Pro version and won't need the "Guru + JomSocial" version which includes their 4 integration plugins for JomSocial? I don't know if it would make sense, but I wonder if it's advantageous to override Guru media library to enable selection of content (videos, images, etc.) accessible from the authors ES content. This might make it easier for ES connected groups to have access to and create lively interactions and classroom engagement and achievement.

@Alexandre and @Paul, from what I've seen this type of integration of a social network to LMS would be new.

I have many Techjoomla products and generally I have a good experience with the company and support I've received. But multi-user Shika is understandably not their priority. If it was easy I'm guessing it would already exist; I wasn't the first to request Shika support multi-user as it was requested between a year and a year 1/2 ago. There's this thing called insurmountable opportunity and at the end of the day it's 24 not 48 hrs. I've seen progress on their mobile apps and at this point that's where I'll continue.

Update: Regarding paid groups (unrelated to LMS) vivek from ReadyBytes replied to my request about this feature:

EasySocial App: Enable EasySocial Users to Create a "Fee-Based" EasySocial Group
vivek Hi Eileen,

Sorry for delay.
Currently we are engaged in some other tasks.
But will surely update it as we get this into streamline.

@Mark, I've purchased the Pro version and will send you an email with access instructions. It's amazing to think with all the proven value of EB, ES, ED, and Komento at the ready it would be really interesting to see what kind of magic could happen. Any integration at all is welcome and greatly appreciated. I know you have no free time but in an ideal world, here are some thoughts on areas for integration:

• Allow teacher of course to have dedicated ES Group and/or ED Discussion created for the course where each new student is auto-added to that group and/or discussion, and a link to the group and/or discussion is show during the course
  
• Ability to show teachers profile by importing (a link that's dynamically rendered) from one or more of EB, ES Profile, ED, Komento (I have licenses to them all
  
• Add ability to create content for a course from (as) an EB post
  
• Enable videos to be selected from ES videos
  
• Allow commenting via Komento
  
• Show on ES profile: my courses, my certificates, courses I teach
  
• Stream student learning activity (started a course xxx, completed course xxx, earned certificate xxx)
  
• Stream teacher activity (added course xxx, added certificate xxx)
  
• Support points, badges, avatar integration
  

@Mark, If you could save us all time and add a plugin for EasySocial that would be good, even if paid

@Eileen, I could help on the features. The plugin itself (which i think from the fact that they have created a plugin that it is not too much complicated) is one thing but the feature is something else. ES apps for profile or else (groups, dashboard) aren't too much complicated, you got to query the right table with my-­>id user and display the info returned (or left join to other table to grab what you want) This involved gathering info and shouldn't be too much of a prob and could release them for free.

Adding stuff to the core might be more complicated if there isn't hook or the sort of thing. I see that there is a Kunena integration therefore, there might be something existing. Otherwise, if there is no hook, it means some kind of "hacking", minimally "template override". That isn't necessary such a big deal, especiallt if there isn't "direct hack" (i.e. template overriding"). I don't know however how this is programmed. However, using a template override, we can then add our own hook too add points, badges, etc..

Enabling video, from how they seems to integrate a lot of video service shouldn't be too much of a problem but might involce some api or parser of ES_VIDEO so that this would become a "service" and then be added nicely.

The one that face the more challenge would be to convert EB or anything else to a Guru class... not that its not doable but you need to take a lot of time to analyze both side DB structue.

If you want to discuss further touch base on my skype: aj.aidjuris.alex

Hey Guys

If there is anything that I can do from my end to help make this happen I am only to happy to chip in.
Maybe I can test or offer some expertise with respect to video stuff.
I know that this is all as of now just pie in the Sky but stranger things have been know to happen.

best

Paul

@Mark again I have Guru Pro, if you need the JomSocial plugins let me know and I will upgrade to Guru + JomSocial.

@Paul et. al. it would help at first to provide critique, insight, recommendations, and thoughts on my initial wish list of Stackideas product's integration into Guru. We could all engage at their demo to get additional insights/feedback. The model I understand being discussed here (and elsewhere in SI forums related to LMS) is that we all see LMS with the community first and foremost and the formal learning is actually only a part of this overall model. Since none of us are "in education" we're not about trying to get customers to spend enough time in the LMS so that we have a vibrant social learning community. Rather, we are starting with the social community and believe the social tools (ES, ED, EB) are the same tools that will exist beyond the formal learning --- customers will stay on the site participating, engaging, building and sharing knowledge, value, and enduring community (right hand side of attached graphic).

@Alexandre are you currently using or planning to use Guru? I follow all your points except on the need to convert EB to a Guru class but do understand that there would be some work to link a new course content type (EB) in Guru to the actual blog entry. Maybe after some feedback from Mark we'd understand what is doable and how, what is possible but impracticable because of limited free time, etc. and then see what's left for us to figure out? I'm hopeful that there is enough committed and enduring interest on the side of Stackideas and their customers that we have a really compelling social-first model for LMS outside of traditional education institutions for companies focused on educating their customers and staff or democratizing education and empowering social communities to share knowledge with each other.

hi Eileen

we all see LMS with the community first and foremost and the formal learning is actually only a part of this overall model.

I for one agree 100%

I will give this some thought (more) and get back to you towards the end of the week at the latest.
But off the top of my head...
IMHO having people use Stackideas tools, EB, ES & ED to promote courses is the key

best

Paul

@Eileen, JomSocial plugin ISN'T "Guru & JomSocial" Package from https://guru.ijoomla.com/pricing but rather "JomSocial Plugins" from the "PRO" package. Therefore if you got access to the "PRO" package you don't need to spend more money.

I want, in a phase 2, to sell online course. Therefore GURU could be an option but it hasn't been converted to ES yet. However, if you have the code for pro package, which include the "jomsocial plugin" we can look at it to adapt it to easysocial and convert it. This shall link user and teacher to their profile link and profile avatar, which is the minimal feature we can expect out of the box. I would enjoy to have Mark do it but I can also have a peak at it if you want to share the code. If it's doable, I would seriously consider it with Shiska (which we dont know when it will be stable) which would be compatible with ES.

As part of the work to add ES App, i consider it rather minimal cause this basicly hasn't have anything to do with GURU has a component but rather with its database table and how we want to display the info.

Maybe I misunderstood of the EB usage. If you want to include a blog page in a GURU class, we usually use it through a content pluging (i.e. like module anywhere from nonumber.nl) we use something like {eb-content id=12}
end the plugin will grab the content of blog id 12 and display it there. I don't know if EB5 has a content plugin it yet but this is a universal plugin that could be develop, if not created, since it could be used in article, in ES or any other component. Initially, i thought you wanted to use EB UI to create a GURU class.

Thus, I would be interested to look at code to see what's doable so ES could have another option for LMS

@Paul, do you code ?

Hi Eileen & Hi Alexandre

I think your list of core priorities makes sense. I would maybe want to make point 6 into point 1.
What follows is me just thinking aloud...

Show on ES profile: my courses, my certificates, courses I teach.

Allow teacher of course to have dedicated ES Group, ES Blog and/or ED Discussion created for the course where each new student is auto-added to that group and/or discussion, and a link to the group and/or discussion is show during the course

I have added EB (In a dedicated learning group) as I believe that it is essential to Blog about the course being offered. People offering courses should be blogging and pushing to Social Media. Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin etc. Eg My new amazing course coming soon. Free first couple of lessons available now. Paid version now available & In case you missed it course is now available. Blog posts should bring people to a group.

Ability to show teachers profile by importing (a link that's dynamically rendered) from one or more of EB, ES Profile, ED

Guess that this would be essential.

Add ability to create content for a course from (as) an EB post

This of course would be great but maybe it is something for further down the road. Maybe it helps to think of Blog posts/preview as teasers for the full blown course? Thinking aloud here. Could there be a blog post with a LSM module below it. Just an idea.

Further I think it would make sense to have any Blog posts as mentioned above in a Training Group XYZ.

Enable videos to be selected from ES videos.

This would be amazing but again maybe something for later…Again, I am kind of thinking use ES Video functionality as a teaser for videos from Trainer XYZ with LMS Component below ES video for e.g.. Similar to as in EB ideas.

Allow commenting via Komento.

Not sure what exactly would be commented here. Great video, great Blog post?

This would be great. Also I have profiles with “tools of trade” so why not match student & teachers? But this is probably way down the road…

At this point I could add much more stuff but this is probably for a later date.

All the below would be really nice to have

Stream student learning activity (started a course xxx, completed course xxx, earned certificate xxx)
Stream teacher activity (added course xxx, added certificate xxx)
Support points, badges, avatar integration

And maybe this is point 99

Have a buddy/study group system. Groups within groups!
Where students help each other out.
Solve assignments etc…

@ Alexandre. No I can not code. Sorry.

Hey, thanks Alexandre and Paul for all your insights and offers to help out! Alexandre for your next stage of your project, and Paul --- probably TODAY you guys could really benefit from this. I just cracked open the package and saw a cool feature that allows you to sort of drip course lessons open over time, useful especially if you sold a term subscription (it's granular to hour, day, week, month, forever). They also have a coupon/discount system and commissions that can vary by each teacher, if you like, so you can negotiate different terms (i.e. well-known author vs someone who maybe isn't as well known).

@Alexandre how can I contact you via e-mail? You certainly can have a look but there are advantages for both Stackideas and customers if they had a first-look and determined value-add for their getting behind the effort. What I'd like to do vis-a-vis EB is to replace Guru's concept of "text" with EB. It really begs for it. And as we know and Paul has pointed out, the EB template system would really help us tailor the way lessons are created for our niche communities.

@Paul, talking about communities, I actually had point #6 far below because I really feel the first three points hold the greatest utility and value for an enduring/long-lasting presence in our communities. But of course #6 would be a rudimentary must-have. But just consider even #3 to integrate ES profile info for teachers bio, as Guru coder states "Unfortunately you can't add custom fields for students and teacher registration forms." but that's baked in ES! I like your buddy/study idea -- and maybe that would just come naturally too if users could use ES to message each other from/while viewing the course and/or when engaging in the discussion (ED) or group (ES). Regarding blog posts/teasers, Guru already lets you publish some lessons to guests without charge, they have done a very good job thinking about and executing a good sales/marketing model here (and they talk about Udemy as a comparison so they're thinking along the same lines, at least in terms of the product and it's positioning.

You know, there are a great many more possibilities once EB/ES/ED are enabled to fit well with Guru that site admins can do themselves. Such as creating badges for various activities, generating EB templates for teacher subject areas, using custom variables to tie in subject matter, additional helpful up-sell tool for course authors, and much more.

After I take some time reviewing Guru in more detail along with both of your posts I'll give more feedback. Wonder what Mark will think when he gets a chance to have a look?

@Eileen an Paul:
You can touch based with me on Skype : aj.aidjuris.alex
You can touch based with me by email : acayer(at)colegal(dot)ca

Through a content plugin from EB, ED or ES, we can display in a regular HTML view anything that we want. I know the one for ES isn't ready yet. As of EB and ED i don't know I haven't played through it but the way SI program, we can import most view/template which, in english, means we can probably do without too much hustle what you put in your picture. If the guys from iJoomla are a little bit "business" they might have added "triggers" or "hooks" like most corporation does (i.e. stuff like onBeforeSaveGroup or onAfterSaveVideo) and they don't need to know it's for us If it's well program, we could also directly ass our own "guru layout"

@ Eileen & Alexandre

Yeah, just going a little over the top before coming back down to earth.

Some thing that I am fascinated about is how the Japanese music industry works.
As I understand it there is a boss and he signs people.
The people who sign are actually responsible for their promotion.
Which means the artists promote on whatever Social Platform they have in Japan.
This drives sales of the music which is pumped out usually in the form of CDs of all things.
CDs are often rented and not bought!!!

I believe that there are parallels to how a decent LMS could work with Stack Ideas products.
i.e. the Commission System link that Eileen shared above :-) & SI Social tools.

I come from a generation where people paid 300€ - 500€ a day to sit in a class and have some one explain stuff.
This has kind of been killed by You Tube & Co at one end of the scale and Boutique Training Portals at the other.
I actually committed to one of these portals and gave up 60% of any income from tutorials.
Which is of course day light robbery.
The only reason I did this was to see how it worked.
And frankly it did not really work very well. Pretty much every thing broke.

I think the Community thing is a new way of going about this and in a weird kind of way going back to a class room.

In my line of work, self taught people like this are kind of typical:



Imagine getting groups of these people online, learning together in a group…

Doing a remix of some old classic where the copy right has expired:
http://boingboing.net/2015/11/04/long-lost-1928-disney-an.html
Not sure if the copy right for the above has actually expired but I am using it to make a point.

One more thing, I think it would be cool if people who made courses earned points and could essentially buy other courses with points!

Back down to earth now

What can I do, to help push this forward?

My contact details are Paul(at)finalbug(dot)tv & Skype Name is: paurray : Paul Murray : Berlin
I am around pretty much most days from 9:00 - 18:00 CET
I can commit 2-3 hours a day open end...

Just thinking aloud here but maybe I could:

a) Work on a mind map of how I would promote/push courses with existing Stackideas tools!?!
This would be with a view to seeing what is already there.

b) Outline how I promoted these guys here & how I would do things better next time:

https://vimeo.com/channels/editdavinci

Also maybe we should make an invitation only group some where?
e.g. here: http://finalbug.net/network/groups
Where we could pool resources and focus…
To be honest I have not actually used ES Groups much.
I have set them up and posted some stuff but that is about it….

Finally I am very curious to see what you guys come up with

I guess that Mark will jump in here at the very latest when this thread gets too long

@Alexandre, @Paul, @Mark, @anyone else my skype is eileen1od Paul, I'll send you a note right after this post.

On EB5: In a way, I think Joomla-based LMS tend to imagine that process matters more than content, which is to imagine that the road is more important than the car. Both are essential. For our market niches I believe what is taught and how it's taught are inextricably linked and very much dependent on one another. By expanding the "text type" to "EB5 type", the course capabilities skyrocket ranging from: ease-of-use (don't need html knowledge) and productivity (write it faster) for course authors, more integration options, templates, and management for site admins, to potentially more engaging lessons, richer content types (anything EB5 supports), and more relevant and meaningful lesson "aesthetics" that connect to learners emotionally and with what they already know. @Alexandre, I'm following you on the plugin/events/system points but don't know how that could enable us to: 1) present the EB5 composer to course authors, for creating new or editing existing EB5 content for a lesson and saving a reference to the blog in a way that works; 2) making it work in such a way the EB5 authored content for lessons is only available for viewing when access through the Guru course? Maybe just through some configuration/settings? It would have to leave EB5 otherwise working "as usual".

@Alexandre you're right that the Pro version includes the four Jomsocial plugins (Profile updates: courses taken, courses taught, certificates earned, Stream: student activity).

I think the Community thing is a new way of going about this and in a weird kind of way going back to a class room.

Yes, Paul! I think what we're talking about is bringing LMS, in a way, to meet what's been changing in the real classroom (at least in the US). The US in the past decade has all been about making use of technology to allow students the freedom to discover solutions to problems both independently and collaboratively. Some years ago I had a contract with a large school district to directly help 4 middle schools with about 3000+ students do just that. But centering an LMS on the community lets students engage with the subject beyond a superficial level. In the US, we call this "active learners", or learners who have a thirst for discovery and knowledge. As we develop sites for niche community, we already have a critical mass of self-selected users who "thirst for knowledge" and we add LMS to that mix rather than take an LMS and try to build a learning community.

One more thing, I think it would be cool if people who made courses earned points and could essentially buy other courses with points!

That's sounds like a great idea to motivate course content creation. Because Guru already supports this, you could also increase commissions based on the number of courses contributed or provide coupons with discounts against courses, either way it's available today. Similarly, your idea could extend and is supported for course takers as well.

It'd be great to have a place where we could focus on how we could pool resources together on this in ways you've suggested and others. I do hope that SI sees value though in participating in those areas of integration that could bring their products benefits and potentially new customers, if not for ES, than for EB and ED.

BTW, I did take a look at part 1 of your webinar on DaVinci Resolve. It was quite impressive in many respects and that's one of the cool things that community brings: the chance to meet and work with folks with varied background like you and Alexandre.

Hey guys,

Sorry I just got back from the Joomla world conference in India and have been extremely tired. I am open for discussions and you guys can always add me on Skype and we'll form a group chat for collaborating ideas

My skype id is marklee_777 (Please don't use this as a support though).

Hi Mark

Hope you had a good conference.
I have added you to my Skype and no I will not bother you for support.
Eileen, Alexandre and myself have continued this conversation in a rather long email.

We have lots of ideas and are in the process of setting up test Guru accounts.
Eileen has her´s up and running, Alexandre has Guru installed but has tech problems, I am holding off until Alexandre´s tech problems get fixed and/or will get a sandbox version.

Glad to hear that you are open to discussion.
I am in Berlin, Germany CET.

Eileen? Alexandre?

best

Paul

Welcome back, Mark! Thanks so much for participating with us to make this happen. As Paul described, he, Alexandre, and I are taking some time to become familiar with Guru Pro with the specific goal to come up with a short list of ideas/SI integrations we think would move us toward a really strong community-centered LMS solution.

I'm guessing one day next week we'd be ready for Skype, knowing beforehand at least some of the end-user considerations/limitations, opportunities, and maybe technical issues so your time is well spent with us For sure, we're all highly motivated to help make this a very productive collaboration.

Thanks for the heads up on this Eileen. Looking forward for the Skype discussion

hy everybody !
any news here ?

Nobody contacted me on Skype yet

Update: a few of us have been working on this, installing, evaluating, comparing to existing alternatives, and gathering an integration "wish-list" for Guru Pro. The plan remains to arrange a Skype call soon after we reach consensus.

Eileen O'Donnell wrote:

Update: a few of us have been working on this, installing, evaluating, comparing to existing alternatives, and gathering an integration "wish-list" for Guru Pro. The plan remains to arrange a Skype call soon after we reach consensus.

great Eileen !
i am very interested to install a training area on our website.
Guru seems to be a complete solution, for Shika i am not sure

thanks guys for the debate.

Hey Mark,

One of Guru's plugin (cron) is breaking up my site. I have found the source and provide them everything and one month later or so plus 5 tickets and nothing has move... I feel like I want to shoot myself in the head with that kind of support ... can't even imagine if it would crash my website while on real activity... truly bad service on my end and won't spent time on a component that breaks up my time.

The beta of Shika miss a lot of feature and shouldn't be use to compare cause it is deceiving. However the full features as describe will be available in december and shall (by the list of it) add a lot of features. Won't make a mind until then since beta is very limitied (i.e. for example lessons arent there with the html builder and other stuff). I will try a 6th time with iJoomla but with each days my faith is going down... hey, I haven pointed out the exact file that make it crash and they are not interested in loggin out to check lol

Anyway, wish you a good day,

@Jan! in short, others agree with your concern (I have both Shika Alpha and Guru Pro sub). We will post group feedback in this forum.

Unfortunately, Shika will not support community-based learning for sometime because multi-authors/teachers won't be supported in a possible December Shika release. On the other hand, for any ES based site that has a community with knowledge they can sell (i.e. like this Udemy) Guru Pro is very attractive, it enables a good monetization component for your site and will help build a community of site members who have a financial incentive to help make your community vibrant and growing.

As he's described, Alexandre has received what amounts to zero support as a user of the free Guru light version. This makes it impossible for him to review the software on his site.

As a paying Guru Pro customer, I've had 17 issues logged since we've started reviewing their software and while they are not the support we love from SI (who is?) they consistently plow through reported issues and make good-faith attempts to address problems.



As I said earlier, we'll provide the info we can soon to this group and have that Skype call as well.

Hi all, Ijoomla is offering -40% on all their product,
i am wondering if you advise me to purchase or not Guru pro edition ?

thanks

Hi Jan

Can I send you a PM?
paul(at)finalbug.tv

best

Paul

Hi friends,

any body tested YooDIY extension ? seems well integrated with easysocial !

Hi Jan

I have not tried it.
Supporter mentioned it.
And at some point said that it probably only supports one video.
I wrote to them looking for confirm,action but never heard any thing.

I am currently wondering about using Tabs in EB.
And even thinking if I could enter a Vimeo Chanel. And not just a Vimeo video and save this all as a template…

This is why I posted this here:

http://stackideas.com/forums/adding-vimeo-chanel-instead-of-vimeo-video

Below are tow screen shots illustrating one of the ways I can image this :-)

best

Paul

Hey guys,

I will lock this thread so that it doesn't disrupt our support flow If there is a need to continue this conversation, please start a new thread