Follow-up: I am testing the BlastChat integration in my test site this week. Will let you know how it goes - excited to see it working!

Thanks for sharing this Beth

Mark,

I guess another project to keep in mind after ES? I guess what I like with StackIdeas is you guys willingness to work with your clients and the support is awesomely fast. So, adding a chat system for ES does sound like a core feature and should not be an add-on.

Thanks for the kind words

@Beth: http://stackideas.com/forums/easysocial-and-cometchat-integration

Thanks,
James

Awesome, Thank you guys for making this work

AppWeb wrote:
adding a chat system for ES does sound like a core feature and should not be an add-on.

I am going to politely disagree here. Chat systems are a COMPLETELY different beast than social network components, and it's not really within the StackIdeas core product "sphere." Especially when you talk about hosted chat.

There are already a number of decent chat systems built that integrate with the existing social networks, and it should be a relatively straight forward process to have them extended to integrate with EasySocial as well. It's really a matter of the customers who use those chat components getting together with the developers and making the request. The StackIdeas folks are super willing to work with other developers, and the more we, the customers, take on the task of making it happen with the other developers, the faster we'll get what we want.

My two cents...

For what it's worth a chat of any sort would now only interest me if it integrates fully with : easy social Profil, Toolbar notifications and email notifications. It would be aweful to go back to having different componants side by side. In the mean time the conversations work great

Thanks for all the input guys!

I am going to politely disagree here. Chat systems are a COMPLETELY different beast than social network components, and it's not really within the StackIdeas core product "sphere." Especially when you talk about hosted chat.

Hi Beth, I guess after few years of building websites that combines multiple components from different developers has created a love and hate relationship for me

What I mean is, I'm tired of buying a component just to find out that either its faulty and we have to fix it ourselves or it works just fine but we have to modify the core code because the developer did not create it right or it's hard for us to create a layout that we want and satisfy our client's requirements. Tired of developer that sells component in a cool looking website and with features that exactly what you need, just to find out that the its was not coded using Joomla's standard MVC. Tired of developers who don't listen to their clients because they think they're the only Joomla Component who have a rich feature set so clients don't have any choice... until someone developed a better one, listen to clients, sound pricing and affordable, fast and awesome support. I can go on..

It's good to know that you are able to make the component developers you're using to listen to you and work with you. But the question is, how fast and eager they are?

I'm not disagreeing with you Beth, in fact I agree with you. I will help you even to work with the developer, just let me know

Chat system for EasySocial in my opinion is a must and tremendously would increase the number of people wanting to join the community. Wouldn't you wish you can just buy a Chat System that you install in 30seconds, setup for about an hour and it just work perfectly because it was created and thought of well.

I do sound so ideal talking about opensource projects but it's not impossible. StackIdeas is able to do it just like you said the more, we, customers work together to ask developers, the faster we get what we want. what about the more of us customers ask Mark to create the Chat System, maybe they would consider it and develop it too. Unless of course Mark would say No we're not creating it just like they said they're not creating a Mobile App for EasySocial. I understand they won't develop a Mobile App because it would take a different developer team expertise than what they currently have. But Chat for EasySocial can be another StackIdeas Component so there is a big possibility.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Having a chat system in EasySocial could either make or break the growth of the extension. I am not entirely sure if we should build a chat system within EasySocial simply because, we try to not compete with 3rd party dev's and rather than competing with them, we try to find all possible ways to enhance the integrations with them. (Look at how maps for iphone failed miserably ) .

Having that said, if there are enough users that requests for such a feature, we'll definitely consider this

Nice Mark

There you go, 1 vote here.. I can wait for it instead of dealing with 3rd party chat system.

I wonder if someone already created a request in voices... checking!

Thanks Perhaps you should create a new voice in the voices area

I have to say, from a competitive advantage perspective. If you want to inspire current JomSocial subscribers to switch to EasySocial, you have to provide a more complete product. Therefore, I strongly recommend considering adding a Chat Bar feature to EasySocial. It would be the first All-in-One Social Networking component for Joomla.

I want to stress that this should be included in the EasySocial subscription, and if you want to monetize that new feature, offer a hosted feature with monthly payments. I would gladly pay monthly for that feature.

I have created a Feature Request in Voices: http://stackideas.com/voices/item/171 please vote for this suggestion!

Cometchat now integrates with ES

Thanks for the heads up on this Jannik and Mark

Mark, I guess Chat system is gaining more attraction. IMHO EasySocial having its own Chat System is not competing with those developers who created integration with EasySocial but rather letting them know that they are not doing the right thing with their integration.

Working with developers to enhance their integration with your product is nice of you kudos to you and your team for having the heart to willingly do that. But you cannot extend your vision with them since they have their own vision and usually a narrow one, short sighted I should say that does not include EasySocial's vision. It is a fragmented endeavor I think, and at the end we the consumer who buys these products ends up chewing the issues of bad integration. Sometimes, we just have to live with it since there's no other component that does it. It's a vicious cycle like Jomsocial until EasySocial came and there's a working alternative.

One good example of this is CometChat, I have not personally used or installed it yet but we're using it on one of our client's site. According to Mark above it does not integrate, but I'm sure it works with EasySocial giving a Chat system bar. They did not bother to create that tight integration with EasySocial since it's not ComeChat's vision. Another user above is saying that ChatComet is slowing down his site, its because again it's not ChatComet's vision to make your site loads fast. If they thought about it they should have created ChatComet with Joomla's framework but no they did not. For me, it is a monsters Chat System that works, I don't question that but I don't think it's the right solution for EasySocial. Since it supports a lot of systems like Google Jabber and other, if you use it with EasySocial alone, I guess it will still load all those unneeded libraries.

Mark, if you ever create a Chat System later maybe after v4, my 2 cents, if you ever decided to release a Hosted Chat please release two versions. Those who wants to pay per month can go ahead and pay for it and those who want to host it themselves like me can just buy an Annual maintenance. I know you're going to be reasonable with pricing

Apple's MAP app is still feature rich compared to Google Map if you compare the turn by turn experience, its just it's faulty it gives you wrong direction, I guess that's why it failed.

Thanks for updating and totally agree with you here. Getting 3rd party developers to be in lieu with your vision is not easy but I am pretty sure it's possible. I had some serious fun with Alejandro when he was building the app and I believe we both have a really similar vision In fact, I think there would be more to come from JReviews.

Yep, if we will build a chat system it will definitely be dual version because on a heavy site, pinging back to your server every second is going to kill your hosting account I am pretty interested in the Jabber protocol though. Seems like a fun playground for us and we have always wanted to play around with it

I personally love your optimism Mark, that is really a good thing It is surely possible.

I just hope Alejandro will work on his pricing we backed out of JReviews after we add everything (all add-ons - we need all of it unfortunately) in the shopping cart, a whopping total of $400+ Annual maintenance per domain.

Awesome if you're going to use Jabber, :P that would be a plus for us.

@AppWeb, you get what you pay for.

Hello AppWeb,

Hm, I have never really seen Alejandro's pricing but I am pretty sure there's a reason for him to price it that way. People need to understand that building an open source project is not necessarily free and it may or may not cost more because you have direct contact with the developers most of the time. In fact, if Microsoft or Apple were to be providing support like open source projects like us, I am pretty sure their cost would be different altogether

Their support is practically none unless you pay for it I recently just bought Microsoft Office 365 for a mac and it cost me about $25 a month. When I tried to request for support, it requires me to pay for it

On the topic of server load I recommend you take a look at this new way of handling it by CometChat: http://www.cometchat.com/blog/cometchat-v5-1-handle-thousands-of-users/

Thanks for sharing Jannik

By the way, I tested a few chat solutions on both JomSocial and EasySocial. Incl. CometChat with EasySocial. I can tell you that these third party chats are not what they are hyped up to be. They look good, but they just do not intergrate as well as one would like them to. Please integrate a chat as a core feature of EasySocial and have the chatbar link up with conversations... so you do not have PMs and Chat separate.

Agree with Jannik

Also if chat was implemented, I'd love to have the option of video via WebRTC.

@James definitely Yes, I'm in for "you get what you paid for". I purchased all StackIdeas products because I am happy with the product and the support, and most specially they don't locked down the code with ioncube, I can install it in any domains I want BUT I can only get 1 domain for support - fair for StackIdeas and fair for customer, reasonable Annual Subscription of less than $200 or $100 for each component - I'm happy to pay $400+ for all StackIdeas components compared to paying $400+ for just one component. That for me is what "You get what you paid for" means, but not so much just with, a good support but I'm locked to one domain and locked with ion cube, and a $400+ annual subscription (inclusive of all add-ons). That does not results to a "You get what you paid for" IMHO

@Mark I'm not an advocate of making OpenSource projects to be FREE, that I believe is a developer's choice. I do believe in Joomla's vision of Opensource and agreed to why they refuse or being strict on adding components to JED. I just love to use and support components that are sold reasonably - just like your products!

@Jannik, Adam, Appweb, it makes a lot of sense to me!

There are 3 types of Joomla market, serving different types of customer with a variety of budgets:

Free Open Source, following the original concept
A mixture of Free and any type of Commercial (charging any price)
Quality Commercial at a reasonable 'Open Source Price'

I believe Stackideas falls into the last category and while it has been made relatively easy for 3rd party developers to integrate with EasySocial, the number of (top grade) quality products will be in the minority.

It is perfectly acceptable for Stackideas not to re-invent the wheel and allow others to do what they do best and integrate, but there is a balancing decision to be made when their 'best' is not the same level of quality as the core product:

"If we develop the product in house will it be better than external 3rd parties, what are the long term benefits and what are the effects on our core product development, customer support and general business strategy if we go down that route"

Therefore (as I am sure Stackideas already have) decide on the core features you definitely want to do in-house, identify quality 3rd party companies who can provide and support the other quality features you need (JReviews is a good example), work closely with them to achieve your goals and the only items that will be left are the features you need but nobody else can do and you do not want to do.

The last group of items go through the cost benefit analysis above.

I agree Message/Audio/Video Chat should be an in house feature because I believe it would be a huge benefit for Stackideas to have it in the portfolio but as Mark pointed out earlier it is something that can screw up the overall product if not done in the correct way and it is probably too early in the roadmap for it all to be done now by Stackideas.

However, like other pieces in the jigsaw, it could be done in stages, starting out with message chat and building from there as EasySocial develops, so as to avoid spreading resources too thin or rushing and producing something that is not of the same quality as the rest of EasySocial.

One other thing, I wouldn't worry too much about in-house 'competing' with other developers, you focus on your own vision to produce the best at a reasonable price and set the benchmark for others to follow. It is a big, expanding Joomla market out there, room for everyone and Stackideas can lead by example, because if you do, the good 3rd party developers will raise their standards as well.

Anyway, a few thoughts for Mark to consider, I am sure there is a way to do it properly, time permitting!

@Richard well said! Agreed!

The third type which StackIdeas falls under is a result of why a lot of people are supporting EasySocial and the rest of the products, I personally don't support a Joomla product like this and spending time on their forum. I certainly hope that a lot of Joomla developer will follow StackIdeas model of doing OpenSource business.

Agreed as well on the EasySocial Chat system. Just like what Mark said " if there are enough users that requests for such a feature, we'll definitely consider this". So anyone who wants the Chat System added to EasySocial by StackIdeas Vote here NOW!

http://stackideas.com/voices/item/163

Thanks for the input guys I believe the guys at Techjoomla is also re-working on their chat system integrations with EasySocial. I have already gave them quite a number of ideas during the World Conference and I do hope to see a more extensive integration with EasySocial

I also would really like to see some form of Message/Audio/Video Chat built into EasySocial as an in house feature. In my case I would be more interested in paying for a hosted solution than trying to host it on my server. I had actually not played with JomSocial before and was sort of just assuming there would be some form of chat between the members on the site. So, I will be hoping it happens sooner rather than later. :-)

Mark, I am happy to hear that you are actively engaging third party component providers. The more competition the better! Although, please do not let this dissuade you from creating an in-house option which is integrated in EasySocial. I don't think we should have to use a third party component to add chat to a Social Networking component. Just because that has been the status quo with JomSocial, doesn't mean it should be the same with EasySocial.
I made the switch in the hopes of a more complete solution. I have tried most of the third party chat integrations for both JomSocial and now EasySocial, and after spending 100s of dollars on different options, I haven't found one that I was truly happy with.
We need you to add it as a feature and have it built in with the current conversation/messaging system. If third party chat providers want to make components that integrate with EasySocial they will have to be better and offer things like a Mobile App and what not, but just to add a chat I do not want to pay for a subpar integration... and if you do have a chance to talk to these third party chat providers, please help them merge the "chat" with "EasySocial Conversations".

Hello Jannik,

Thanks for the heads up on this. I don't think the reason that we did not intend to build an integrated chat system is to be like JomSocial but rather, we believe that re-inventing the wheel is a pretty huge concern since 3rd party integrators might lose their interest in building apps for EasySocial.

Nevertheless, do vote for this feature in the voices and if it has a good amount of votes, we'll definitely add them in (Probably with the option to host it yourself or a cloud service)

First of all, Mark, I want to thank you for being an awesome developer who listens to his customers, you always offer well thought out and detailed replies and your genuine concern about inspiring third party integrators to build on your platform is one of the things that makes Stackideas so great. In response to your concerns about third party integrators loosing interest if you add it as a feature, here are my 2 cents... if you build a good enough product, other developers will want a piece of the pie even if they have to compete with what you offer.

Look at the various components you offer, for each there is a third party option that integrates with your other offerings. If people use EasyBlog they can use the built in comment system, komento or a wide range of third party options. If you look at forum software, what did you integrate first with EasySocial? Kunena... not even your own EasyDiscuss. If you look at CCK's your components integrate or will integrate with with not only Easyblog, but also K2, JReviews etc. You have never forced your products on anyone, but everytime you felt you could make something better than the competition, you have, but you have merely offered it as an option, not as the only choice. Within the Joomla community Stackideas has a great reputation for 2 tings: offering great quality components/service and for offering both in-house and third party integration. Most people buy Stackidea products to be able to integrate the various aspects of the site and ensure that with future updates compatibility isn't an issue.

Also, note: The top two chat providers... CometChat and ArrowChat only dedicate themselves to chat, so even if for some odd reason they would choose to not offer integrations for EasySocial, you won't loose out on other possible third party options.

I agree 100% Jannik, good post!

Mark said:

Nevertheless, do vote for this feature in the voices and if it has a good amount of votes, we'll definitely add them in (Probably with the option to host it yourself or a cloud service)

Perfectly happy with that option, it is what I would be doing with a 3rd party chat component anyway, so a message/audio/video in-house EasySocial version (or even just message to start with......) with self hosting/cloud service would be a win win scenario.

Thanks for the heads up on this Jannik, well said and I like it very much

To Mark, with apologies to Kevin Costner and their famous phrase from the film Field of Dreams:

LOL, nice one

As I am starting to realize that the dreams and hopes of a Stackideas chat are going down the drain... I am trying to figure out how to improve things in the conversations/chat side of EasySocial... which is the feature that needs most work, and the highest rated voice entry which has not been accepted. You can see voice entry here: http://stackideas.com/voices/easysocial/item/171

Now over the last week I have made some progress while talking to both Mark from Stackideas and Parth Lawate from TechJoomla, on separate occasions.



With Mark I encouraged the following changes/additions to conversations:

1. Make it fully ajax based and make replies instant, as if it were a chat.

2. Include a: [name] is typing... message in the bottom of the screen

3. Include a: [name] has read your message.

4. Make it so e-mails only send if the receiver of a message is offline. No point in sending a bunch of e-mails for an ongoing conversation. This isn't e-mail where you take forever to reply, this is CONVERSATIONS messages go back and forth on a much faster rate and spamming e-mail on every message is pointless.


With Parth I encouraged the following changes/additions to JBolo:

1. Merging JBolo Chat with EasySocial Converstaions.

2. Offering Hosted Chat

3. Including Jbolo in their EasySocial Mobile App



Now there is good and bad news. Mark has said he hopes to be able to introduce these improvements around EasySocial 1.4, but no confirmation nor ETA has been provided. Conversation can be found here: http://stackideas.com/forums/conversations-revamp

Parth and his team have confirmed that they are going to aim to merge Jbolo and EasySocial Conversations by around August. They however, claim to have no immediate plans of adding hosted, but said they would consider expediting the process if there was enough demand. Conversation can be found here: http://techjoomla.com/forums/question/couple-of-questions.html


What I am asking is that as a community we come together to encourage Stackideas and TechJoomla fully revamp conversations, introduce a chat bar and offer hosted by around the release of 1.4/Aug/Sept ish.

I know that there is a lot of demand for this, and I know there is momentum in the Stackideas and TechJoomla partnership. Let's expedite this, because both companies are great and develop based on demand. Let's make our voices heard.

Please encourage TechJoomla to offer hosted over at http://techjoomla.com/forums/question/couple-of-questions.html
Please encourage Stackideas to make this high priority here